Curse

Iuris · Jul 15, 2007, 02:48 PM // 14:48

And the only things that cost a lot at the merchants are 15k armour, crafted weapons and lots of skills.

And these are easily obtained. A 1000 gold for a skill is easy to come with regular 8 member party.

The Abbott · Jul 15, 2007, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Guess who was target audience of those changes? It was supposed to keep players like you happy. Be happy, you have those to grind for for years.

try reading what I have said earlier in the thread.. I am ONE title from I'm Very Important, I've DONE the grind, now what?.... farming was an endless area of fun which would have kept me playing for a few years yet,, as it is I struggle to make 1k per day playing normally (which is only when I help others as I've compelted everything multiple times)

what I am saying is that the game was great for everyone back then, noobs played through the game, people could grind for titles and people could farm..... now the one thing which was availible for me to do which was farm.. is gone... farming is terrible now.. not fun. most places are nerfed and the rewards do not justify the time spent doing it....

now I know you will not be beaten in anytype of argument and you will come back with something even more pointless than your last post so go head, I will refrain from replying as in my world, someones view is just that, THEIR view.. and you can't change it...

lacasner · Jul 15, 2007, 03:20 PM // 15:20

I think people are confusing the OP's "fun" for farming; for his zest for cash. Sorry buddy, if you were just farming for cash find other ways to make cash, for instance merchanting, which is 100 times more profitable.

Loviatar · Jul 15, 2007, 08:01 PM // 20:01

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

Look back at old posts here, when the game was fun..maybe and I stress MAYBE 1/10th as many upset people. Why? because you now have to grind to attain anything worth having.

it was fun in early beta watching the game change every time you went somewhere.

IT....IS......STILL....FUN......for me

Quote:

I only started a year ago and at that time it had been somewhat nerfed

you could get up to 50 runes an hour before the Riverside nerf.......you would have loved it

Quote:

This is a GAME and should be fun, but to a player with millions of exp, all games beat, protector titles, guardian, cartography, etc what is left? Farming, that is all that is left and now it is worthless to do so I agree with OP that a-net needs to bring back the fun and give us options to make money.

if you are playing a game and not enjoying it but still keep playing it you need help.

do something else you enjoy and have some fun

Nevin · Jul 15, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Oh man it has been a long time since I've had someone like you. I got so excited reading your post that I knocked my mic off of my desk!

Wow... That made me frown.

Twinsoul · Jul 15, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Advice for those who are bored with GW: Take a break. Do something else until GWEN comes out, and then come back to play with all the new skills and changes. Just because you may have been obsessed enough with GW to buy multiple accounts and spend all your time playing doesn't mean you need to continue to be... and boredom is a pretty good sign that you would rather be doing something else. For me, it's leveling my Warlock in WoW to 70, which is moderately bearable because I've never done it before.

Mac Sidewinder · Jul 16, 2007, 01:41 AM // 01:41

I am new to GW - only about two months. I read about how it used to be and sigh. I only play right now two different toons but I don't think I will be able to afford to outfit them with the best of anything the way things are right now. I don't make that kind of money.

I wish the people who keep saying that there are easy ways to make money would let everyone else in on the secret then there wouldn't be so many of these type of posts. I play two to three times a week for around four hours each time. I'm simply going through the missions right now and the rewards for doing that barely are enough to keep my toons equipped. (As far as skills, armor, runes, etc go).

To the people who think that everything is fine now ask yourself this: If I started the game right now from scratch, would I be happy with the amount of drops and gold I was getting. Keeping in mind that you would like to be able to get that great looking armor, perfect weapon, or the skills of your choice. Could I do it?

Government Flu · Jul 16, 2007, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

It's true enough that ANYONE wanting to follow the step-by-step instructions found in the farming (or other) sections of fan sites can get any amount of gold, greens, items, etc. they want. However, to many (including myself), by doing so they might as well be a bot following programed instructions.

The fact of the matter is, everything in life eventually becomes mechanical and programmed. I remember when I bought my first Guild Wars game (Factions) a year and some months ago, everything was new and if not exciting, at least very interesting. I enjoyed playing through and visiting the exotic locales, experimenting with new skills and ideas.

Well, eventually I deleted my very first character, and started an aggressive form of gameplay that wasn't the least bit slow paced. This is because I already knew what to expect at every turn.

I knew how the game worked, how the monsters worked, how the skills worked, and what was the most effective for me.

Now, sadly...the game is very much mechanical, no matter what I do. This happens in every single game, I think. You're playing a First Person Shooter and you get a really nice weapon and you're kicking ass and then some time later...it becomes gray. A droll, perhaps nice, event that's played over and over again.

Or, my newest example...I've taken a break from Guild Wars to play Fable on the PC. It's very enjoyable but this far into the game, I'm already legendary in status, fully evil, I have sweet armor, a sweet weapon, but despite this, everything is the same old same old.

And thus the programmed memory of what I did to make the game work for me was initiated once more. Routine is something we can't escape.

So don't call people who do something over again bots, because they're not a computer program. They're still flesh and blood, and they're doing what they feel to be most effective.

Bots are cheaters and a lazy shortcut. So don't compare fair players to such objects.

Thanks.

Kashrlyyk · Jul 16, 2007, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by kradens

guild wars pve - is essentially about killing monsters.

when u kill a monster, u want to be rewarded for it. so generally, when a monster drops nothing, and 10 other monsters after him drop nothing. it doesnt feel like you've been rewarded for your efforts, therefore it feels like you've just wasted time because you've killed 10 monsters and theres no show for it.

drops / items / gold is what gives a point to the whole kill 1 000 000 monsters thing.

I completly agree!

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

The argument I don't understand (perhaps someone can clear it up for me):

Player 1: "I have lost the only thing I can do in PvE endgame - farming! Now I'm bored and there's nothing else!"

Player 2: "OK, but you can still farm, you just get less than you did before."

Player 1: "Exactly! Now I gotta farm for 4 hours for what I used to get in 1 hour! It's just stupid!"

Player 2: "Wait a minute, weren't you just complaining about having nothing to do?"

Read what kradens said!

Quote:

Originally Posted by drago34

And to add to your point less money is equal to more since the value of gold has improved a lot.

That doesn`t mean shit for 15k armor. Getting items and accumulating wealth is part of the fun for some people, like myself.

Steps_Descending · Jul 16, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Government Flu

The fact of the matter is, everything in life eventually becomes mechanical and programmed. I remember when I bought my first Guild Wars game (Factions) a year and some months ago, everything was new and if not exciting, at least very interesting. I enjoyed playing through and visiting the exotic locales,

And Faction is probably THE GuildWars for those kind of feelings

Quote:

Originally Posted by Government Flu

You're playing a First Person Shooter and you get a really nice weapon and you're kicking ass and then some time later...it becomes gray. A droll, perhaps nice, event that's played over and over again.

An interesting quote, i wouldn't have dared using those words (fear of not being understood) but I can't disagree with anything about that. On- or off-topic.

Quote:

Or, my newest example...I've taken a break from Guild Wars to play Fable on the PC. It's very enjoyable but this far into the game, I'm already legendary in status, fully evil, I have sweet armor, a sweet weapon, but despite this, everything is the same old same old.

Not being a fan of said Fable, i'd be tempted to say it's a game problem. My experience with it looks like that : as long as you're in the thrill of the game, best game ever (inexact words but you get my meaning)
As soon as the thrill passes : QUICKLY gets old and boring.

My tirck to not get tired AND not have problems with updates : have the imagination (or naivete) to set goals like " try to solo this area THAT way".
Jo<hny way for those that will get it.

SlyClone · Jul 16, 2007, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Pre Loot Scaling:
While exploring deep into every single area of Guild Wars with my Heroes/Henchmen, I used to pick up about 3k worth of goodies/gold every time I went outside town/outpost limits. I had 4 hours everyday after work to simply do quests or kill every monster in an area(vanquishing, but normal mode, since there was no Hard Mode). The rewards from this style of play were nice. Enough for me to always be able to afford a key or 2 per run, and very slowly outfit all my heroes and make sure my Main Character was the most souped up character I could ever have.

It was beautiful. The game was rewarding in ways that made me feel like I could accomplish anything and most importantly, be able to participate in events that require me to spend money. Or save for many sets of Armor tailored to every single one of my PVP needs, which I thoroughly enjoy as well. My Elementalist was stylin.

Likewise, it was not the only way I made money in game.

Buying 2 other accounts (Factions CE) helped me gain a quick 200k gold so I could have some of the sweetest looking Armors the game offered. Then I got addicted to playing "dress-up" on my hottie. I can't afford the $90 CAD on a new copy of Factions CE every payday. And it's not like the game store shelves are stocked up to the ceiling with this virtual Kuunavang Minipet Access Key.

Also, selling other people's items for commission gained me alot of money I would NEVER have had the time to make otherwise. But this cannot happen everyday. Not every player has a nice inventory that they would entrust me with for a week.

During them days, I've had the opportunity to play with people who's "luck" ingame was so far more spectacular than mine that it got me into envying them and being totally jealous of their ability to progress.

Everytime I achieved a new level of confidence (or title for that matter), they would reach that same title in half the time, and in some cases, outright blow me out of the water in mere days, compared to the year/months I spent on becoming "somewhat leet" in the majority of casual gamers' eyes.

But in essence, the game was still fun to play because of the 3k I made while killing every monster in Gate of Secrets, for example, and for being able to afford one or 2 keys each run to see what my luck could do for me.

Getting a decent gold item out of a chest that cost me 750 gold to open was quite rewarding. Although they were few and far between (the perfect ones, or very rare ones that sold for nice profits at the time), it was relatively easy to make money in GW. Easy enough that if you put your mind to it, you could achieve any financial goal in 200 hours of play time.

Post Loot Scaling:

I find now that vanquishing an area in Normal Mode nets me much less than it used to. Therefore making it kind of redundant. Because of this, I have to resort to becoming a "professional farmer" to make money, as opposed to being mindless gimmicky build self/hero/henchmen party just killing spiders on the internets.

But even after I freaked out at Anet, in a posting very similar to the OP's, I realized where they were going with Loot Scaling. Yes it took me a few weeks, because I wasn't looking deep enough into the very real problem the way I used to play negatively affected the game's economy.

Nice to be rich and have it all. But what then? What Anet did is fix the economy so that the people who choose to become "somewhat leet" in the present and future take much longer to get there. Reasoning for this is to slow down game advancement pace enough so that the people who still enjoy "what they have" or "what they are stuck with now" will remain active for as long as possible.

Those who rage quit GW are clearly the ones that saw what I saw at first.

less loot, less fun

But in reality, I think the devs meant well doing this. Keeping those who already reached that plateau by providing them with content and reward that could interest them into staying for as long as possible too. But seeing that those types of people get bored easily, the expansion pack is released for them.

With that first expansion pack being part of expanding Tyrian campain, I am willing to bet(100g, since I'm FREEKIN BROKE) that there will be 2 more expansions for GW1 before GW2 comes out. One for Cantha and one for Elona. Spread out evenly over the next 2 years while GW2 is being developed.

Retaining fanbase is what's on their minds. And the ones that took this type of update to heart, are going to miss out on a potential 3 expansions and the opportunity to try out a completely new, much more perfected and polished Guild Wars 2.

Now if you factor in the fact that a possible 200 more skills and perhaps 80 more armor sets will come out after GW:EN is out, how is it possible to get bored?

And yes, it is entirely possible to make a gimmick build with the right set of Heroes/Hench and still overcome monsters in Hard Mode just as easily as Normal Mode was before.

The only HUGE drawback in Hard Mode is that you gotta pay double the amount of gold to open a freekin chest. And sometimes JUST getting to that Locked Chest is either:

A) Deadly

or

B) Return to Outpost Deadly

Unless you use a specific player invented build that's been kindly posted to help you enjoy the game before you give up, because your mind was set on that particular build you used for so long that PWNed everything in the game while you talked on the phone with that hot chick from accross the street, or even while you played on your PS3.

Yes there's many, many ways to make money in GW.

Get creative.

Remember when you first started playing and were trying different builds to kill Charr for example.. at lvl 10, you had what? 10 skills total to play with and you had to deal with it. 2 years later, your main character possibly has every Elite skill in the game, and most second profession skill already bought.

Well in Hard Mode, there's even the chance that you might find a FREE skill Tome. Imagine that.. even more ways to get creative with your builds.. Now don't think that the monsters are THAT much different. I'd say that their skill sets have been very minorly altered if not at all in Hard Mode. They just attack faster and avoid getting PWNed.

So you have to work to kill them. BUT the reward, my friend, is BETTER than Normal Mode Pre-Loot Scaling.

Sure I might not fill my backpack and belt pouch and 2 large bags in one run, but I know that whatever I do get is worth more than the bag full of whites I used to get. (Hell sometimes I even had to throw out some of the least important whites, in order to fill up on Unid items(when salvaging was profitable)

So it's harder to make money. But eventually everything will be so cheap, that what you make now will buy more than what you used to make then would have bought you had Loot Scaling not been implemented.

Yeah Long Winded post.. Hopefully it's not deleted like my previous 7 posts on Guru. Yeah this is not a flame. Yeah this is NOT a "wrong topic" and yeah this is a OPINION, just like everyone elses. Please stop following me and deleting my posts. I have just as much right as every other person in this community.

Karlos · Jul 16, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18

I just want to comment on one thing:

There is a myth among players that "farming" is the only way to make gold. This is absolutely not true.

I have played the game for over two years, achieved great things, made lots of money and not ONCE did I go out with my warrior/monk/rit or whatever to solo monsters for cash and drops.

Here's the best kept secret in the game: If you go out in a group (pug or henchies or guildies or whatever) and get your 1/8 sahre of drops, you make money just fine. If you just play a lot of PvE stuff, questing, mapping, killing stuff.. You will make 5k a day if you play for 2-3 hours a day. this is the minimum, without any farmign what so ever.

Now, when I was doing just that, I was around 250k in terms of wealth (plus 2 15k sets). When I started farming elite areas (back then ectos and shards) I started going into the 700k bracket (plus one FoW set). When I farmed the elite missions in Factions (in groups) I made th 1 million club and got a second set. When I farmed DoA I joined the multi-millionaire club with ectos and multiple FoW sets and Tormented weapons.

This is not to brag, and I am sure there will be those who will psot to show they got 100 bazillion in the first week of prophecies. This is to comfort average players that even regular PvE play is rewarding and to also turn your everyone's attention to the fact that with increased challenge comes increased reward. If I was still doing FoW runs today, I would still be in the 700k club, it's as simple as that.

Tijger · Jul 16, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

I completly agree!

That doesn`t mean shit for 15k armor. Getting items and accumulating wealth is part of the fun for some people, like myself.

So now you have to work harder/longer for it, should make the fun even bigger, no?

Or are you saying that you are actually lazy and want to get rich quick? Yeah, then your fun is going to be ruined.

Willow O Whisper · Jul 16, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

I just want to comment on one thing:

There is a myth among players that "farming" is the only way to make gold. This is absolutely not true.

I have played the game for over two years, achieved great things, made lots of money and not ONCE did I go out with my warrior/monk/rit or whatever to solo monsters for cash and drops.

Here's the best kept secret in the game: If you go out in a group (pug or henchies or guildies or whatever) and get your 1/8 sahre of drops, you make money just fine. If you just play a lot of PvE stuff, questing, mapping, killing stuff.. You will make 5k a day if you play for 2-3 hours a day. this is the minimum, without any farmign what so ever.

Now, when I was doing just that, I was around 250k in terms of wealth (plus 2 15k sets). When I started farming elite areas (back then ectos and shards) I started going into the 700k bracket (plus one FoW set). When I farmed the elite missions in Factions (in groups) I made th 1 million club and got a second set. When I farmed DoA I joined the multi-millionaire club with ectos and multiple FoW sets and Tormented weapons.

This is not to brag, and I am sure there will be those who will psot to show they got 100 bazillion in the first week of prophecies. This is to comfort average players that even regular PvE play is rewarding and to also turn your everyone's attention to the fact that with increased challenge comes increased reward. If I was still doing FoW runs today, I would still be in the 700k club, it's as simple as that.

True True, but what ur talking about requires one of these core classes (necro,monk,elementalist,warrior) rest of the classes are pretty much left out when it comes 2 elite missions, ppl just have 2 take one look at the A/* after my ign, and then i won't be able 2 get a group for: Deep,Urgoz and the missions in Doa. So u can't say all it requires of u is to play normal pve, beacuse if the class u play, isen't one of the core classes includet in the wiki cookie cutter builds u are left out no matter what.

Tijger · Jul 16, 2007, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willow O Whisper

True True, but what ur talking about requires one of these core classes (necro,monk,elementalist,warrior) rest of the classes are pretty much left out when it comes 2 elite missions, ppl just have 2 take one look at the A/* after my ign, and then i won't be able 2 get a group for: Deep,Urgoz and the missions in Doa. So u can't say all it requires of u is to play normal pve, beacuse if the class u play, isen't one of the core classes includet in the wiki cookie cutter builds u are left out no matter what.

Your problem is with players being narrowminded and being unable to look beyond a build posted on the Internet, Anet didnt cause that, players do that.

I did Tombs (when that was new) with balanced teams when everyone always wanted gimmick builds "because it was faster"...I never cared about fast, I play for fun and playing this game with a group of people wiht their own builds and ideas (even when they plain suck) is much more enjoyable to me.

Willow O Whisper · Jul 16, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijger

Your problem is with players being narrowminded and being unable to look beyond a build posted on the Internet, Anet didnt cause that, players do that.

I did Tombs (when that was new) with balanced teams when everyone always wanted gimmick builds "because it was faster"...I never cared about fast, I play for fun and playing this game with a group of people wiht their own builds and ideas (even when they plain suck) is much more enjoyable to me.

Yup thats what i'm talking about, ppl will call u noob for not using the god damn gimmick builds from wiki

. The world is cruel.

Tijger · Jul 16, 2007, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willow O Whisper

Yup thats what i'm talking about, ppl will call u noob for not using the god damn gimmick builds from wiki

. The world is cruel.

Nah, people are stupid more like.

Dougal Kronik · Jul 16, 2007, 02:13 PM // 14:13

My opinion is that the Loot Scaling sucks for the player who wants to get a quick couple of platinum for skills, kits, and keys. Without investing a large amount of time repeatedly farming an area, or having to go to HM and Vanquishing an area that may take over an hour.

The game is still enjoyable, but it is definitely not as fun as before Loot Scaling was introduced. The time factor reducing the enjoyment doesn't hold merit as I've been playing for two years and with the introduction of Loot Scaling, my enjoyment has drastically diminished.

Even with breaks from the game, my main character see little use now that any of the titles I would like to acquire require huge investments of gold.

Not one to play the trading game, I merch most drops. White drops and gold drops from one or two farming runs usually netted me enough gold to satisfy whatever I wanted to purchase for that session.

kradens · Jul 16, 2007, 02:26 PM // 14:26

people who say loot scaling hasnt decreased drops.

ask yourself this.

if loot scaling hasn't decreased drops, and drops still drop the same.

then WHAT has loot scale achieved?

ONLY by decreasing the drop rate can bot farmers be hurt.

if loot-scaling still dropped the same amount of loot, then that means bots are unaffected, and the only people being hurt are the players who now have less income, and probably will need to go to a gold selling website, which i've seen happen already sadly.

ok. one more thing.,

over the past months since loot scaling has been in affect, over several huge threads and hundreds of posts later, why havent we got an answer from anet. seriously, this many threads from the player forums on elite guild wars websites, and no answer.

can we at least have a definitive "no we are not CONSIDERING changing the way loot-scaling works etc" or a "yes we're looking into it" etc.

and no, im not talking about the answer they gave us via gaile about the reasons for loot scaling. im asking is anything being CONSIDERED by anet about the state of the game and it's gold problem.

Mac Sidewinder · Jul 17, 2007, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

Here's the best kept secret in the game: If you go out in a group (pug or henchies or guildies or whatever) and get your 1/8 sahre of drops, you make money just fine. If you just play a lot of PvE stuff, questing, mapping, killing stuff.. You will make 5k a day if you play for 2-3 hours a day. this is the minimum, without any farmign what so ever.

Thats strange, I was out for 3 hours today doing a couple of missions with a hero/henchie grp and only made 850g. Thats counting everything I sold to the merchant, except for one crappy staff that i gave to one of the heros to replace an even crappier staff. Thats about normal for me lately. I wonder where the other 4k went to?